Cymbalta – a correction

I’m sorry, but I have a correction to make to my previous post – Charities and their good works…

I have been contacted by an internationally reknowned authority on antidepressants and he pointed out an serious inaccuracy in what I’d written about Cymbalta.

I’m happy to therefore offer my apologies to my readers and make this correction to the piece I wrote.

I described Cymbalta as the first antidepressant/painkiller combo – evidenced by Lilly’s marketing campaign in the USA ‘Depression Hurts’ and Cymbalta’s launch and marketing material in the UK.

I am sorry to have to tell you this is not the case. Much as Eli Lilly & Boehringer Ingelheim would like us to believe Cymbalta has proven pain relieving qualities I have been told otherwise. It seems there is nothing about Cymbalta that makes it a painkiller.

The only reason Lilly are marketing aches and pains is this hasn’t been used as a sales angle by any other drug company for an antidepressant. It’s pure marketing in other words. The same could have been said for any other antidepressant on the market whether or not there was any evidence it did anything for pain.

In fact I went to the Cymbalta website to check this out and do you know what? – I could not find any specific claims or data about Cymablta’s pain relieving qualities… in fact when it comes to science, this is what Lilly says:

The Science Behind Depression
Many researchers believe depression is caused by an imbalance of naturally occurring chemicals, serotonin and norepinephrine, in the brain and the body. In the brain, these two chemicals are thought to be associated with mood. These same chemicals are also thought to be associated with regulating and reducing feelings of pain that come from the body.

In order to be healthy and free of depression, you may need a treatment program that addresses both the emotional and painful physical symptoms.

Right then that’s clear and scientific, isn’t it?

But who out there can tell me exactly what Cymbalta does and how it does it?

And I have to ask is Cymbalta actually approved as a pain killer?

32 Responses to “Cymbalta – a correction”

  1. Matthew Holford Says:

    “The Science Behind Depression
    Many researchers believe depression is caused by an imbalance of naturally occurring chemicals…”

    Well, I used to believe that NLP was a load of mumbo jumbo. Amazing how one’s perception can change, given a bit of experience, isn’t it?

    Matt

  2. CL Psy Says:

    You are doing some very interesting work on this topic. Keep it up!

  3. Matthew Holford Says:

    Cheers, Psy. I think the arguments one makes against a thing are more compelling, if one has an alternative to offer!

    Matt

  4. You are a putz Says:

    Cymbalta is indicated for management of diabetic neuropathic pain. It also showed through controlled studies that it has a positive effect in terms of cetain pain associated with depression. In addition, it has shown to be effective for patients suffering from fibromyalgia but has yet to get the indication. Try looking at some studies or at least the PI before you show the world your ignorance.

  5. admin Says:

    Controlled studies, eh? I’m convinced – NOT.

    Is Cymbalta approved as a painkiller for the aches and pains associated with depression?

  6. truthman30 Says:

    “In addition, it has shown to be effective for patients suffering from fibromyalgia but has yet to get the indication”…

    Who is this idiot?…
    Go away, you are talking through your arse hole…

    Indicated for “certain” pain associated with depression”…!
    Just because it’s indicated doesn’t mean it’s effective you moron…

    “In addition, it has shown to be effective for patients suffering from fibromyalgia but has yet to get the indication”…

    Just another marketing angle and sales pitch no doubt…
    Whoever this gob shite is , they obviously work for Pharma…

  7. You are a putz Says:

    If you dont like the indication…take it up with the FDA, not the Pharma company. Ignorant idiots…..You all want to live forever and take free drugs with no side effects. Wake up…Its the real world!!!!

  8. You are a putz Says:

    “Go away”…What a great response when presented with information that doesn’t conform to your view. It is easy to sit amongst those that agree with you and spout the same crap to each other, but when you are opposed you only cry is to “go away”.

    I can point to hundreds in my line of work that have responded and remitted from depression thanks to a myriad of antidepressants. Not all work for everyone but the common thread is that these people exhausted all effort to overcome their symptoms and needed either medication or to end it all.

    And yet your plea is for anyone without your same thought process is to “go away”. You are merely a coward who hides on this board to avoid debate. Sorry….unless the admin on this site removes me for having a counter view (which I can only addume they will) then I will stay and debate your weak claims with science and fact.

  9. truthman30 Says:

    “If you don’t like the indication…take it up with the FDA, not the Pharma company. Ignorant idiots…..You all want to live forever and take free drugs with no side effects. Wake up…Its the real world!!!!”

    You are missing the point completely Mr Putz ….
    It is the pharmas who apply for licencing according to what they want to indicate the drug for… And anyhow the FDA is just a smokecreen .. ( if you work in the industry you would be very well aware of that)

    “Go away”…What a great response when presented with information that doesn’t conform to your view. It is easy to sit amongst those that agree with you and spout the same crap to each other, but when you are opposed you only cry is to “go away””

    The reason why i said go away is because it is obvious that you either work in the industry or promote these drugs… ( i would have used stronger language but I refrained)…
    I could debate you till the cows come home but if you are indoctrinated into a pharma and psychiatric ideology then there wouldn’r be much point… Are you a GP or a drug rep?..

    “I can point to hundreds in my line of work that have responded and remitted from depression thanks to a myriad of antidepressants. Not all work for everyone but the common thread is that these people exhausted all effort to overcome their symptoms and needed either medication or to end it all”

    And you line of work would be what exactly Mr Putz?…
    A myriad of antidperessants you say? Could your perception of remission not be the withdrawal from the “myriad” of drugs you seem to keen on pushing here? …

    “And yet your plea is for anyone without your same thought process is to “go away”. You are merely a coward who hides on this board to avoid debate. Sorry….unless the admin on this site removes me for having a counter view (which I can only addume they will) then I will stay and debate your weak claims with science and fact”

    A coward you say? … haha ..
    Check out my blog and you’ll se that i am in fact quite the opposite… Avoiding debate you say? … I’ve created more debate about these drugs than you will ever know Mr Putz..
    Weak claims and scientific fact?…
    Bring it on Mr Putz…
    Bring it on…

  10. You are a putz Says:

    So by your train of thought…no person has ever been depressed, taken an antidepressant (Lexapro, Effexor, Cymbalta, welbutrin, Zoloft) and gotten better?

    No individual as suffered from cancer and had an oncology drug push them into remission?

    No one on this page has taken Ibuprofen (formerly by prescription only) and found relife from pain?

    Your way off base with the broad brush attack. Your quest to see a specific indication for pain on Cymbalta is laughable. welbutrin has no specific indication for having less sexual dysfunction…but it is an advantage over SSRI’s.

    A Lexus is still a car, but offers advantages over say, a Kia. Doesn’t make it more or less of a car…just different features. If Cymbalta can help with pain…then it is an added feature. If Welbutrin can help with depression but have less sexual dysfunction…it is an added feature.

    Your conspiracy theory pages here are misguided.

    Maybe you should all hold out for those golden days of spikes through the brain and commiting all of those with depression so they will not be forced to work next to you.

    Maybe that is what your page is for…nothing more than a veiled attack at those with mental illness.

  11. admin Says:

    You still don’t get it at all, do you, Mr Putz.

  12. You are a putz Says:

    What I “get” is a page filled with anti pharma rhetoric started by an individual who apparently battled a mental illness/disorder and, by his/her own admission willingly took an antidepressant and had very bad withdrawal symptoms when stopping the medication. So bad, in fact, that it changed his/her life so much so they dedicated a portion of it to this site.

    But what this individual (you I would gather) have done is create a conspiracy website that supports the notion that everything pharma does is “evil” and bent on hurting the individual in hopes of making more money….that is simply ridiculous. What business gets more money by hurting those they are trying to get money from? If a patient dies, hates, has terrible side effects from a medication it doesnt benefit anyone.

    The world is getting fattter and more diabetic….which is worse…creating medicines that will help others live longer healthier lives at a profit to the company that makes them, or that people refuse to take personal responsibility to watch their own diets and get exercise in hopes of avoiding that fate? For those that cannot help their issues, like the mentally ill. Is it not better to have a stable patient that may gain weight and risk diabetes but can live a full life, or to have an individual lost forever to a state run hospital? It is all a give and take.

    The bottom line is – every drug (aspirin, caffeine, Celexa) has one thing in common…they all have “effects”. Those things we call “side effects” are no different than those “effects” we are hoping for…just different or adverse.

    No individual should ever put anything in their system without taking the time to read the PI and ask questions.

    Yes, aspirin will give relief of minor aches and pains….but it can also be fatal in the young…..both are just effects of the medication.

    A drug like duloxetine can help with depression, diabetic pain and even stress urinary incontinence….but can also cause nausea. All are effects of the medication.

    Pharma isnt “evil” as you would like to make out…it is a business. Pure and simple. It is not a God given right to have medications….they are created in laboratories…studied at great expense….and then studied again and again. In the end, a company is left with a product that will fill a niche if they are lucky and will, hopefully, be able to turn a profit.

    This is no different than Coke vs Pepsi, Advil vs. Tylenol, Lexus vs Kia.

    As consumers, you have the right to seek what works best for you and what does not. Paxil’s PI states issues with withdrawal. If you took the medication and did not read or take seriously the withdrawal issues than you need to look within yourself as to why.

    I wish you good luck with your health.

  13. admin Says:

    Let’s get down to cases then, shall we?

    I started to take Seroxat in 1997. The PIL that came with the tablets DID NOT mention anything about ‘withdrawal issues’ or ‘discontinuation issues’. I’m careful – I read it.

    By 2002 the PIL was talking about ‘discontinuation’ being a problem for 0.2% of patients – that’s 1 in 500.

    On June 25 2003 this figure was changed overnight to 25% – that’s 1 in 4. That’s quite a change isn’t it, Putz, 1 in 500 to 1 in 4?

    Today in the UK, the PIL puts the figure at 3 in 10.

    Informed consent? Don’t make me laugh.

  14. You are a putz Says:

    And I agree to that point wholeheartedly!!! The use of medications evolve over time as greater exposure to patients is achieved. The fact that the PI changes is indicative of a flawed system doing its best to evolve with this knowledge.

    To support your cloaims, though, no PI changes should have been implemented as Pharma is a conglomerate of the “evil” willing to cover up any changes come hell or high water.

    But that isn’t the case. In fact, numerous drugs that help millions of poeple have their PI’s updated quite frequently inhopes of giving the opportunity for informed consent whenever possible.

    By 1997 there were already numerous lawsuits against Paxil makers for the very reason you have issues yourself. That alone should have been a red flag.

    But the bottom line is this….your serious and obviously horrible experiences with one particular medication do not give you the pulpit of an expert to preach on all things pharma.

    You can, and I beg of you, continue to share with the world your difficulties….but please stay on the topic for which you are best suited and avoid straying into areas you have no first hand experience with…It lowers your credibility.

  15. You are a putz Says:

    And please forgive the typos…I will try to be more efficient in the future.

  16. admin Says:

    And you know more than me about this because…. ?

  17. You are a putz Says:

    “More” about your struggles getting off of Paxil…nothing.

    Able to distinguish credible from a broad brushed rant…..I would guess I do.

    As I stated..please continue sharing with others your struggles you DO know about and you will have much better luck getting a following you so desperately crave.

  18. truthman30 Says:

    Ahh Mr Putz…. You are back with your Pharma Bullshit I see…

    “But the bottom line is this….your serious and obviously horrible experiences with one particular medication do not give you the pulpit of an expert to preach on all things pharma”

    “You can, and I beg of you, continue to share with the world your difficulties….but please stay on the topic for which you are best suited and avoid straying into areas you have no first hand experience with…It lowers your credibility”

    I notice you use the word “credibility” , well what credentials do you have which give you the right to spew your Pharma Influenced propaganda? …

    And on the Subject of credibility? Do you think GSK deserves credit considering its history of bad pharmaceutical practice?…( Myodil, Paxil, Avandai being just a few cases in point… )

    You still haven’t told us if you are a drug rep or not?…
    Are you?…
    Do you work in the industry?…

    “Pharma isnt “evil” as you would like to make out…it is a business. Pure and simple. It is not a God given right to have medications….they are created in laboratories…studied at great expense….and then studied again and again. In the end, a company is left with a product that will fill a niche if they are lucky and will, hopefully, be able to turn a profit”

    Pharma may not be “evil”…
    But its “practices” are …
    What do yo think of Avandia Mr Putz ?
    What do you think of Myodil?
    What do you think of Vioxx?
    What do you think of Thalidomide?
    What do you think of Pharmas exploitation of the developing world, In Regards to denying these countries HIV drugs, in regards to using the poor and sick of these countries as cheap guinea pigs in unregulated and dangerous clinical trials?
    Do you think these practices are “good”?
    What word other than “evil” would you use to describe these disgusting abuses of human rights and dignity?

    We all know Mr Putz , that Big Pharma spend more on Advertising than on Research and development…

    ( you would know that if you work in the industry, as i suspect you do)

    Gimme a break with your crap about “studied at great expense” , The profits they make on these meds is OBSCENE..
    The behaviour of some pharmaceutical companies in regard to concealing negative data and suppressing negative trial results is disgusting. Big Pharma has no morals…

    It is an industry which feeds on greed, fear and exploitation of sickness…

    “Paxil’s PI states issues with withdrawal. If you took the medication and did not read or take seriously the withdrawal issues than you need to look within yourself as to why”

    Paxil PIL has been changed dramatically over the years , GSK have suppressed data, many thousands of adults and children have been slaughtered because of this disgraceful situation…
    Not everyone who took Paxil originally would have been warned about withdrawal or side effects as the patient information leaflets did not reveal GSK’s stats until 2006…

    Do you belive in informed consent?
    Do you believe in ethical practices?
    ( because if you do and you are a drug rep, then you are in the wrong industry , that’s for sure)

    I think that you work in the industry and your defensive and misinformed over reaction to this blog is purely because you are battling with your conscience, the truth about pharma is out there now, its all over the internet, it has a bad reputation because it has earned that bad reputation. And it has earned that bad reputation through its bad deeds and its bad pharmaceutical practice…

    And as for “better luck getting a following you so desperately crave” …

    This blog has had tens of thousands of hits in just 6 months, Fiddamans Seroxat blog has had over 15 000 , and mine has had thousands too…

    These blogs have a huge following because Seroxat had affected a huge number of people around the world…

    I think that you feel threatened by the truth..
    And you are probably more frightened of your own conscience than anything we could say about pharma…

    Maybe it is time you listened to that conscience Mr Putz?….
    Maybe its time…

  19. You are a putz Says:

    Wow..I guess if you rant long enough maybe those that disagree with you will just go away.

    You answered so many of your own questions in that post that it makes me wonder whether or not you have any regard for an honest answer.

    Nope…do not work in pharma…..next question.
    Vioxx…Great drug that had overblown slight increase in cardio issues that most are proving unrelated to the drug. Wonder why so many physicians hoarded the drug when it was pulled…oh yeah…it WORKED!!!!

    Avandia released more safety data just yesterday that substantiated its safety profile.

    Thalidomide: “Soon after its banishment, a doctor discovered anti-inflammatory effects of thalidomide and began to look for uses of the medication despite its teratogenic effects. They found that patients with erythema nodosum leprosum, a painful skin condition associated with leprosy, experienced relief of their pain by taking thalidomide. There are studies underway to determine the drug’s effects on arachnoiditis, Crohn’s disease, and several types of cancers. However, physicians and patients alike must go through a special process to prescribe and receive thalidomide to ensure no more children are born with birth defects traceable to the medication.”

    “The profits they make on these meds is OBSCENE..”
    Ahh, yes…Profit. You must hate that! A company goes to work on thousands of potential compounds and if lucky, finds one to get through all of the mandated studies at a cost of 1 billion dollars. On top of that…they have to hope that someone doesnt accuse them of dropping dead with a heart attack relate to their medication (which they may have had anyway…but luck would have it the widow discovered hubby took his first dose the day he dies). Tack on another billion to cover lawsuits from people like you.

    So as a company…they should give this medication away. Or should they hope to break even? Maybe have enough for coffee. Nope they need to make a profit because people are now screaming at the drug companies to develop vaccines for the “superbugs” that are springing up.

    You cant have it both ways.

    Oh and lastly that whole “earned” a bad rep thing….what a joke. When lawyers drove the cost up…little old ladies were said to be eating cat food so they could pay for meds….which are covered in this country…so individuals decided they had a “cause”. someone had to pay…..God forbid anyone turn a profit on meds when someone else deserves free medicine.

    When you drive out all of the initiative for pharma to develop new drugs….where will they come from?

    You?

    The governments of the world?

    PETA?

    Greenpeace?

  20. truthman30 Says:

    Oh Gimme a break…
    You are obviously totally pro-pharma, ( so I don’t believe for a minute that you are not in some way associated with the industry)

    What may be ranting to you is debate to me…
    If you can’t debate then don’t enter into one…
    And again you are missing the point completely Mr Putz ( or whatever your name is) ..

    ( and i notice you refrained from discussing the key points i made in my previous post but nevermind)

    I have little interest in other pharma drugs or issues, I am interested in the truth about Seroxat , period..
    But having researched Seroxat for so long, i have broadened my knowledge on other drugs and the industry as a whole…

    My blog is a Seroxat information site ( you should check it out, maybe you will learn a thing or two about your beloved pharma industry), and this site is a Seroxat awareness information site mainly, but it does touch on other issues and other drugs occasionaly…

    “Avandia released more safety data just yesterday that substantiated its safety profile”

    Oh Really? , Avandia released it ? Or GSK released it? …
    Post me a link and Ill give you my opinion on it..

    As far as I am concerned once a drug company lies and decieves the public about one of their drugs , then they can’t be trusted … And GSK had a History of it … you really should research “Myodil” and “Seroxat” (well I think Seroxat possibly speaks for itself… )

    “The profits they make on these meds is OBSCENE..”
    Ahh, yes…Profit. You must hate that! A company goes to work on thousands of potential compounds and if lucky, finds one to get through all of the mandated studies at a cost of 1 billion dollars. On top of that…they have to hope that someone doesnt accuse them of dropping dead with a heart attack relate to their medication (which they may have had anyway…but luck would have it the widow discovered hubby took his first dose the day he dies). Tack on another billion to cover lawsuits from people like you”

    Profit… No.. I don’t hate profit.. But I do disagree with Profit gained through Fraud , and I do disagree with profit earned through deception and lies in any industry…

    1 billion dollars to research a drug? , I doubt it… Most pharmas invest in smaller independent research labs and this further cuts their costs in R and D and as for compounds, Seroxat was an off the shelf chemical ( originally trialed by Ferrosan) , it could have been anything, GSK were just trying their luck with a psychoactive medication which they happened to obtain. Paxil was originally registered as a “hypnotic drug for human use”, GSK trialed it for depression because they wanted to rival Prozac and compete for market share… There is nothing special about Seroxat I can assure you ( well maybe just the fact that it has become one of the most notorious drugs of recent times)

    God help you Mr Putz if you ever get harmed by a defective medication…

    “So as a company…they should give this medication away. Or should they hope to break even? Maybe have enough for coffee. Nope they need to make a profit because people are now screaming at the drug companies to develop vaccines for the “superbugs” that are springing up”

    You cant have it both ways.

    Give what medication away? Are we both having different conversations here?

    The price of drugs in not the issue to me, it is bad pharmaceutical practice and Seroxat which is of relevance to me (although I am sure that the price of drugs is probably a big issue in the developing world where people die because they can’t afford them)

    And anyhow, as I said before , their profits are obscene , Regardless of if they make defective drugs and harm patients and get hit with lawsuits, their profits are always obcsene ..

    “Oh and lastly that whole “earned” a bad rep thing….what a joke. When lawyers drove the cost up…little old ladies were said to be eating cat food so they could pay for meds….which are covered in this country…so individuals decided they had a “cause”. someone had to pay…..God forbid anyone turn a profit on meds when someone else deserves free medicine.

    When you drive out all of the initiative for pharma to develop new drugs….where will they come from?

    You?

    The governments of the world?

    PETA?

    Greenpeace?”

    And actually yeah, you have a point, The governments should take over the pharma’s and make them government run, particularly the ones who continually break all ethical practices and morals… Most definately this is an excellent suggestion..
    Maybe that is what is needed, the pharmas should be taken over by governments and properly monitored and regulated…

    All bad reputations are earned.. How else do you think that they manifest?

    Do you seriously believe that my opinions could “drive out all of the initiative for pharma to develop new drugs”…?

    I doubt that very much… ( after all, I’m just a member of the public highlighting some issues and encouraging debate…)

    Awareness is a good thing, and I think it is in everyones interest to be aware of these things…

  21. admin Says:

    Putz – you love the industry in the same completely uncritical way that a four year old loves their Mommy. Mommy provides security and comfort.
    Everything Mommy does is therefore wonderful and anyone who criticises Mommy must therefore be bad. Or a disgruntled loser. (©Pharma Giles)

    One bit of advice for you – grow up.

    BTW Putz – what’s your Cymbalta connection?

  22. admin Says:

    Putz – you need to do your research – the information is out there:

    The vast majority of drugs – more than 90 per cent – only work in 30 or 50 per cent of the people, I wouldn’t say that most drugs don’t work. I would say that most drugs work in 30 to 50 per cent of people. Drugs out there on the market work, but they don’t work in everybody.
    Dr. Allen Roses
    GlaxoSmithKline Senior V.P.
    Genetics Research 12/8/2003

  23. You are a putz Says:

    1. Pointing out a flaw in your argument does not require a “connection”.

    2. I am happy to have revealed you for the individual you are. Your “mommy” comments expose you for the child on a tantrum individual you are. I gave sincere comment on you issues with Paxil and gave sincere credit to your experiences….you respond like an infant.

    3. “The governments should take over the pharma’s and make them government run” – Oh how sad you must be living in your socialist world. Big Brother should take care of you!!! Please name for me one government program that ever worked, let alone ran well compared to a capitalistic corporation driven by competition and customer satisfaction.

    4. “(although I am sure that the price of drugs is probably a big issue in the developing world where people die because they can’t afford them)” – really? and how many more would die in the rest of the world if no company made them at all?

    5. “God help you Mr Putz if you ever get harmed by a defective medication… ” – Thank you for your concern. But I am a firm believer in personal responsibility and risk vs reward thinking. If I am willing to weigh the risks, the responsibility is on me.

    6. And as for Truthman – “I notice you use the word “credibility” , well what credentials do you have which give you the right to spew your Pharma Influenced propaganda? … ” The same as you…I possess the same information to the same materials as you. My credentials to voice my opinion are equal (no better/no worse) than yours.

    7. “Do you work in the industry?…” – As stated, no I do not…but your choice to believe is irrelevant. I simply found your site while doing other research and found the initial reasoning for it disturbing and sad. But even more disturbing is the outright attack on all things pharma in response to 1 persons issue with a single medication.

    8. “I think that you feel threatened by the truth..” – Your version of the truth threatens only those that believe your one side of the issue. You throw out disparaging comments in hopes of discreditin those that disagree with you. You make claims that I feel threatened to enforce some superiority. Simply put, you discredit yourself even more.

    If the site is used to share your experience with Paxil, as I stated before, please keep up the good work. But the conspiracy “truths” I feel so “threatened” by are laughable.

    And now to add in that Pharma should be government run clarifies you and your ideology even more.

    I dont feel threatened by you or anyone else.
    I am saddened that “admin” had a discontinuation problem.
    I am disheartened that individuals believe that anything they put in their system has no consequences.
    And, lastly, I am fed up with litigiousness of people looking for someone to blame every time their world is disrupted.

    My coffee is too hot, My airbag was too hard, my pills gave me gas…..I should sue, blame someone , scream and shout.

    Oh, and if anyone disagrees with me…I should slander them ’til they go away.

  24. truthman30 Says:

    Hmmm.. Now who’s “ranting” Mr Putz … ?

    You just happened to stumble upon this forum while browsing the internet did you? ( i find that difficult to believe and I still think you work in the industry)..

    I don’t know why you continue to post as you still are missing all the relevant points. You also miss the key issues as to why these blogs exist…

    3. “The governments should take over the pharma’s and make them government run” – Oh how sad you must be living in your socialist world. Big Brother should take care of you!!! Please name for me one government program that ever worked, let alone ran well compared to a capitalistic corporation driven by competition and customer satisfaction.

    Well, it was you who suggested it .. So you are arguing with yourself…

    I could name a socialist country called Cuba though, apparantly they took care of some ill 9/11 workers when the US Health care system failed them… And consideriing the US health care system is the epitome of Capitalism and corporate driven healthcare is it not?, would this not be a perfect example of exactly the issue which you yourself suggested? And from what I have read ,the healthcare system in the US is diablolical… Maybe you should check out Michael Moore’s new Movie “Sicko” .. it just might enlighten you on ” capitalistic corporation driven by competition and customer satisfaction”

    4. “(although I am sure that the price of drugs is probably a big issue in the developing world where people die because they can’t afford them)” – really? and how many more would die in the rest of the world if no company made them at all?

    Hmmm… No argument here, you are obviously not overly concerned for the poor and sick people of the developing world who are denied drugs ( how so very “capitalist” of you..)

    I don’t understand, if as you say, you don’t work in the insustry then why are you worried at all about the state of pharma?…

    It’s hardly gonna go bust overnight because of a few opinions on a blog now is it?…
    and anyhow, what purpose would that serve…?

    (It’s certainly not something which I would wish to happen)

    And again, I must say to you that you are missing the point, It is the issue of Seroxat which is my interest…

    “God help you Mr Putz if you ever get harmed by a defective medication… ” – Thank you for your concern. But I am a firm believer in personal responsibility and risk vs reward thinking. If I am willing to weigh the risks, the responsibility is on me.

    Hmmm , yeah, but the thing is Mr Putz, There are a lot of cases of drugs licenced by drug companies where the patienst were not given the full Risk/Benefit Ratio… ( Seroxat/Zyprexa/Vioxx/Avandia/Myodil … And many more)

    If you choose to be blindly unaware of the reality of this situation( suppresion of negative clincal data etc) then that’s your choice but don’t have a go at those whom choose not to be..

    7. “Do you work in the industry?…” – As stated, no I do not…but your choice to believe is irrelevant. I simply found your site while doing other research and found the initial reasoning for it disturbing and sad. But even more disturbing is the outright attack on all things pharma in response to 1 persons issue with a single medication.

    My choice to believe is very relevant, particularly in this debate… and anyhow, this is not my site…
    And yes it is disturbing… Many things are disturbing, just because they disturb your perception of the world, doesn’t mean they are untrue or invalid…

    And also, this is far beyond 1 persons issue with a single medication… Seroxat is a mental health catastrophe which raises questions about all prescription drugs, and that is relevant to everyone , as we all will need prescription drugs at some point in our lives, whether we like it or not.. So to have access to honest information from pharmaceutical companies would surely be in everyones interest don’t ya think?…

    You throw out disparaging comments in hopes of discreditin those that disagree with you. You make claims that I feel threatened to enforce some superiority. Simply put, you discredit yourself even more.

    You were the one who started the “discrediting” , and to be honest i find it quite juvenile…

    I did percieve your responses as over defensive of the industry which you claim you are not part of… And usually people become over defensive if they feel threatened by something…

    “But the conspiracy “truths” I feel so “threatened” by are laughable”

    Hmmmm, again, god help you if you ever get prescribed a defective med … If they are so laughable to you then why do they “disturb” you so much?..

    “And now to add in that Pharma should be government run clarifies you and your ideology even more.”

    This was your suggestion , all i did was expand on it…

    “I am disheartened that individuals believe that anything they put in their system has no consequences.”

    But maybe not quite as disheartened as those who were lied to about side effects , withdrawal and efficacy of a prescription “medicine”…

  25. You are a putz Says:

    Did Glaxo twist your arm to take their drug?
    Probably not. Those who CHOOSE to go on any medication do so for a reason. They are looking for an answer to save them from a particular condition or disease.

    If the answer doesn’t suit them they run to the hills complaining.

    Try another answer. Blame the condition. I find it appauling that when someone tries to help another they are either ignored if it works or villified if it doesnt.

    You claim Seroxat to be your only concern yet post these as well – “( Seroxat/Zyprexa/Vioxx/Avandia/Myodil … And many more)”

    You hide behind one excuse to condemn the lot.

    And no, your belief in any “connections” is still irrelevant for this or any other debate. If there were a “connection” it would make no difference in the debate itself. I disagree with your stance. Period.

    I might actually be less inclined to care if I were on a payroll for the simple reason that your outcries have so little bearing on the whole.

    My concern is when you frighten others away from medications that may help them. Instead, they turn away from any possible help and fall deeper into dispair.

    “you are obviously not overly concerned for the poor and sick people of the developing world who are denied drugs ”
    – Actually, my concern is for those who seek help and for whatever reason are denied it. Be it from misinformation such as this, or cost, or a variety of other reasons. Governments give BILLIONS to those developing countries you pretend to care about so their well being is at least accounted for.

    This topic began about a particular medication that was not Seroxat. I did my research and have a background in medicine and stated an opinion related to the PI. The post that followed disputed the studies. This only indicates a broad brush hatred toward those that develop medications. Then the dialogue rambled into indications etc. When no one could debate that any longer you lashed out at me for having a differing opinion.

    So to you I ask…What point am I missing?

    Oh, and your Michael Moore comments solidify your position. Sad, really. And while the US may not have a perfect system for health care. Where else would you go? Are you standing in line to go to Cuba for your next bypass surgery?!?!? Didn’t think so!

  26. truthman30 Says:

    Listen Mr Putz, quite frankly I am fed up debating with you becausw I feel thus…

    1. You are missing the point

    2. I feel we are having different conversations which is beginning to irritate me

    But, I feel i must tackle your last comments before I finish with this debate ….

    “Did Glaxo twist your arm to take their drug?
    Probably not. Those who CHOOSE to go on any medication do so for a reason. They are looking for an answer to save them from a particular condition or disease”

    No, But they didn’t disclose information side effects or withdrawal, that is the point which you continue to avoid…

    Depression or Anxiety attacks are not diseases…

    “You claim Seroxat to be your only concern yet post these as well – “( Seroxat/Zyprexa/Vioxx/Avandia/Myodil … And many more)”

    Taken out of context, i made those comparrissons to make a point…

    “You hide behind one excuse to condemn the lot”

    Nope I do not, thats exactly what you do…

    And no, your belief in any “connections” is still irrelevant for this or any other debate. If there were a “connection” it would make no difference in the debate itself. I disagree with your stance. Period.

    What “connection” are you talking you about?

    I might actually be less inclined to care if I were on a payroll for the simple reason that your outcries have so little bearing on the whole.

    I don’t give a rats arse if you care or not about my “outcries” …

    “My concern is when you frighten others away from medications that may help them. Instead, they turn away from any possible help and fall deeper into dispair”

    I am not anti-SSRI, nor do I want to scare people away from medication, SSRI’s should be used purely for short term relief, in extreme cases of “depression” under close supervision and monitoring in conjunction with therapy… Unfortunately, this is not the way they are usually prescibed , thus we have the diabolical situation we are in today with the Seroxat Crisis…

    “Actually, my concern is for those who seek help and for whatever reason are denied it. Be it from misinformation such as this, or cost, or a variety of other reasons. Governments give BILLIONS to those developing countries you pretend to care about so their well being is at least accounted for”

    Gimme a break , the third world has always been exploited by the west

    “This topic began about a particular medication that was not Seroxat. I did my research and have a background in medicine and stated an opinion related to the PI. The post that followed disputed the studies”

    Ahhh so this is the ISSUE Mr Putz …. Cymbalta !!!

    Have you got a financial interest of Cymbalta Mr Putz?…
    Interesting…

    “Oh, and your Michael Moore comments solidify your position. Sad, really. And while the US may not have a perfect system for health care. Where else would you go? Are you standing in line to go to Cuba for your next bypass surgery?!?!? Didn’t think so!”

    All I can say is thank god we have people like Michael Moore who have the balls to speak out against corporations who abuse the public…

    And, anyhow, I don’t live in the US, thankfully I live in Europe where our healthcare is free… Yey!!!!!

  27. You are a putz Says:

    I agree..you seem unworthy of debate. In one post I am told I have a “connection” to pharma. When I deny your accusation of a “connection” you post this.
    – “What “connection” are you talking you about?”

    “SSRI’s should be used purely for short term relief, in extreme cases of “depression” under close supervision and monitoring in conjunction with therapy… Unfortunately, this is not the way they are usually prescibed”
    – Then it is the quality of physician you should be screaming about!!! And the normal course of therapy is 6-12 months of treatment. How short are you hoping for?

    “Gimme a break , the third world has always been exploited by the west ”
    – I hope you include Europe in your “West”. I will avoid this topic as politics is obviously not your arena of expertise.

    “Have you got a financial interest of Cymbalta Mr Putz?…”
    – Your lack of thought process astounds me. I came to a Paxil board because of another product? Makes sense to me. Try a little deductive reasoning before typing. It may help a bit.

    “And, anyhow, I don’t live in the US, thankfully I live in Europe where our healthcare is free… Yey!!!!!”

    – That excited , huh? First off, we are happy you are over there and not voting in US elections. We try to avoid socialism here.

    Secondly, your healthcare is not without its issues.
    “British cancer patients are substantially more likely to die of the disease than those in other western European countries because of poor access to the latest drugs, according to an authoritative report to be published today….The researchers, whose report is published in the journal Annals of Oncology, found that …the US was the leader in using new cancer drugs. …The proportion of colorectal cancer patients with access to the drug Avastin was 10 times higher in the US than it was in Europe, with the UK having a lower uptake than the European average.”

    And God forbid you need elective hip, knee replacement or the like. Hows a six to eight month weight for “elective” bypass surgery sound.

    This is not to bash the UK, but come on….lets be at least marginally fair here.

    And I ask again…are you standing in line in Cuba for any procedure?

    I would guess not.

  28. truthman30 Says:

    “I agree..you seem unworthy of debate. In one post I am told I have a “connection” to pharma. When I deny your accusation of a “connection” you post this.
    – “What “connection” are you talking you about?”

    Well, if you have no connection to Pharma, then what about Cymbalta? ..
    And If i am so unworthy of debate , then why do you continue to do so?…

    “SSRI’s should be used purely for short term relief, in extreme cases of “depression” under close supervision and monitoring in conjunction with therapy… Unfortunately, this is not the way they are usually prescibed”
    – Then it is the quality of physician you should be screaming about!!! And the normal course of therapy is 6-12 months of treatment. How short are you hoping for?”

    You see this is just the point I am making, the pharmas don’t give the physicians all the data about their drugs, and it is this suppression of negative clinical studies which affects the physicians choice when selecting an effective medication …
    Seroxat is a case in point…
    When negative data is suppressed , informed choice becomes misinformed choice…
    I presume you agree with informed choice ?… Or do you prefer misinformed choice? …

    – That excited , huh? First off, we are happy you are over there and not voting in US elections. We try to avoid socialism here.

    Afraid of a little socialism are we? …
    (better pledge your allegiance to uncle sam quick before the commies take over, or is it the muslims now?) … It seems that the boogeyman man of the American psyche changes with every generation….

    Anyhow, the relevance of blogs such as these is a perfect example of expression of thought, freedom of opionion and liberty, which i am sure you would agree is a fundamental factor of a democratic ideological system… So I really don’t get why it would bother you so much, considering you seem to be intent on portraying your disdain of the debates which this blog and similar sites encourage…. Surely that is an undemocratic stance on your part?…. And I ask you again…
    What is your “connection” to Cymbalta?….

  29. You are a putz Says:

    “So I really don’t get why it would bother you so much, considering you seem to be intent on portraying your disdain of the debates which this blog and similar sites encourage…. Surely that is an undemocratic stance on your part?…. ”
    – You continue to show your lack of true debating skills…I do not disdain the debate….only the lack of ability on the opponents side.

    “Well, if you have no connection to Pharma, then what about Cymbalta? ..”
    – You should enter politics…you avoid direct answers and cling to the hope that you will pin something on another that does not exist. If you cant beat ’em…accuse them!

    “And If i am so unworthy of debate , then why do you continue to do so?…”
    – Your version of debate differs from mine. Your argument is supported by factless assumptions and accusatory tone. My only deals with facts and reality. So I gather you will never truly be able to function in this environment.

    “And I ask you again…What is your “connection” to Cymbalta?….”
    – A little obsessive, dont you think? I guess, again, if you keep asking you feel you are accusing or painting the opponent as guilty of something. It would not benefit me to continue answering since each is only met with the exact same question.

    So I will just ask you the same questions…..what mental illness led you to Paxil?

    Why would someone visit this site with a “connection” to anything other than Paxil?

    Are you still seeking medical attention for your condition? What drugs would those be? What were you switched to when Paxil failed you? How long were you (are you) on that med?

  30. truthman30 Says:

    So I will just ask you the same questions…..what mental illness led you to Paxil?

    Why would someone visit this site with a “connection” to anything other than Paxil?

    Are you still seeking medical attention for your condition? What drugs would those be? What were you switched to when Paxil failed you? How long were you (are you) on that med?

    Nope, Im not on any meds , and I don’t believe in psychiatry or any of its pseudo-labels so that throws your tactic of trying to pin some kind of “disorder” on me…

    This debate is getting a little tired at this stage…
    If you came here because of Paxil, then you would do good to read up on it, as that is the intention of these blogs ( which was the point that I was making in the first place) …

    Anyhow, all the best🙂

  31. seroxat secrets… Top posts for May « Says:

    […] Cymbalta – a correction […]


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